The Curation by Nour Hassan
The Curation, formerly Radical Contemporary, is a Digital Curator and Podcast based between Cairo, Dubai & Jeddah. We curate everything from art, fashion, and design, to culture, wellness and tech to present you with only the best brands, founders, products and pioneers.
The Curation by Nour Hassan
HUNA Talks: The Intersection of Art and Education with Afra Al Dhaheri, Alia Hussain Lootah, and Janet Bellotto
A powerful conversation unfolds at Art Dubai 2025 as three visionary women share their journeys through the evolving landscape of arts education in the UAE. Dean Janet Bellotto of Zayed University, artist-educator Afra Al Dhaheri, and artist-founder of Medaf Studio Alia Hussain Lootah reveal the transformative potential of creative learning while challenging traditional pedagogical approaches.
Their personal stories illustrate remarkable transitions—from financial accounting and PR studies to pioneering artistic practices—highlighting how educational interventions can dramatically alter life trajectories. The dialogue explores how community-building sits at the heart of effective arts education.
Most compelling is their vision for the future—arts education that embraces performance, climate resilience, and interdisciplinary approaches. Alia's work with children emphasizes creative freedom. As Janet concludes, growth comes from "working alongside different generations" within an ecosystem where everyone both teaches and learns.
For more on each speaker visit @afra_aldhaheri, @aliahlootah_ and @Janet Bellotto.
This episode is in collaboration with @hunaliving. As part of A.R.M. Holding, HUNA redefines elevated living through lifestyle-focused communities that blend artistry, design, and sustainability.
This episode was filmed LIVE at @artdubai 2025.
Welcome to the Curation, a show for the culturally curious. This is your host, noor Hassan. Each week, I'll guide you through a curated edit of the finest in art, fashion, design, culture, luxury, wellness, tech and more. This is your go-to space for discovering trailblazing ideas, untold stories and meaningful conversations with innovators and creators who are shaping our world. There's no gatekeeping here, so sit back, tune in and let's discover only the best together. We're proud to launch this special episode of the Curation Podcast in collaboration with Huna Living, recorded live at Art Dubai 2025. As part of ARM Holding, huna redefines elevated living through lifestyle-focused communities that blend artistry, design and sustainability. In this talk, afra Dhaheriah Hussain Luta and Janet Bellotto explore the intersections of art, education and contemporary pedagogies in the UAE and beyond. We speak about their experiences as artists, educators and mentors and the importance of education and art in the contemporary landscape and as part of a greater ecosystem. Without further ado, this is my talk with Afra, Alia and Janet. I hope you enjoy and I look forward to sharing more of these conversations with you on the Curation Podcast.
Speaker 1:Hello everyone, welcome to the Huna Lounge. This is our Huna Talks with the Curation series and I really wanted to start this series today by introducing my guests. First of all and I believe this talk is potentially the most important that we will be hosting on the Curation on education in specific, because it's a topic that I'm very passionate about personally, coming from a very institutional background as well as an education-focused background. As a speaker, as a journalist myself, I really believe that it's important to get all the information from the source, so I'd love to introduce my speakers, my guests today. Speakers my guests today. First, janet Bellotto, the Dean of CAS at Zayed University. Afra Daghiri, incredible artist, and dear friend Alia Luta, incredible artist as well, and both from the Emirates, so really honored to have you both here today. So I'd love for you to start just by briefly introducing yourselves to the audience and we'll get into our conversation together.
Speaker 2:Thank you, noor, and thank you for this really important conversation and I'm happy that we can all be here together from our different perspectives. So I'm the Dean just started this year at the College of Arts and Creative Enterprises at Zayed University, but I've been teaching here in the UAE since 2006, the same year, academic year that Art Dubai started. So I remember when it was first launched here in 2007.
Speaker 2:And I think the second year I was actually here talking about art education. I think the second year I was actually here talking about art education. So, almost 20 years later, to have this conversation with local young artists whose work you've seen last year in the fair is quite exciting. I'm also an artist by practice and I play several roles also, sometimes curating exhibitions for cultural exchange and yeah, that's me Incredible.
Speaker 1:Thank you, afra.
Speaker 4:Hi, my name is Afra Dahri and I'm a visual artist based in Abu Dhabi. I'm also an educator I'm a faculty at Zayed University as well and I do remember Janet from. I took some classes in Zayed University in Dubai at the time and I remember seeing Janet, so it's also like really heartwarming to be kind of witnessing all the developments in the art scene and being able to come back and contribute in this way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Thank you, alia.
Speaker 3:Hi, my name is Alia Hussain Luta. I'm a full-time artist based in Dubai. I'm also the co-founder of Medav Studio, which is an art center that aims to spread art and educate children as well as adults about art. Our aim is making art accessible. So yeah, that's about it. And actually I know Afra. We were in a fellowship program as well, thank you.
Speaker 1:So I think the very first question for all of you and I'd love for us to each individually answer it is what is the importance of education in art? Because I think there is a discourse where many people do believe, of course you can begin your career by practice, but where is that space where education fits in and how important is it in your your opinion, of course, that's a very good question and we might be a little bit biased about that, but art in education is not just about the professional practice.
Speaker 2:It really needs to be embedded throughout, from children when they're playing around with materials. It's another way to learn and see the world differently. So, and I've seen changes here in the UAE as art has been more embedded, as art has become more part of the dialogue at every level, and I think without that we're missing something very important become more part of the dialogue at every level, and I think without that we're missing something very important and how that might grow, and how someone might be inspired and draw from the time that they're very young and bring that back into the community in different ways.
Speaker 1:Yes, and Afra, I have seen you at your studio physically educating and showcasing and showing people how it's done and being a part of it. You're very hands-on and I really believe that that makes such a difference. But can you talk to us more about that, because I think being present while educating and mentoring it's it's a really important part of it.
Speaker 4:yeah, um, I think it plays, uh like a, it creates a circle. You know it's a cycle that you know goes round and round. And I think, um, when I was a student, I felt like I wanted at the time to intern, for example, at an artist studio. I wanted to have experience in practice and not just working at an institution like a museum or an art organization, and so, while at the time there weren't many artists that had their studios open to accept that kind of apprenticeship, Okay.
Speaker 4:And so I really wanted to first give back to the institution that I actually started my education and was instrumental in me choosing to go into the arts. I started actually at Zayed University studying financial accounting Interesting.
Speaker 1:That's a plot twist.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but I thank my advisor at the time who said you know you should try arts. I went to him not knowing you should try arts. I went to him not knowing. At some point I said, well, I'm not sure this is for me, so can I try something else? And he suggested art and I laughed at the time. I said I never drew, I never painted. Like what do you mean? I took his advice and I took foundation courses and I was like a kid in a candy store. So the story can tell itself from there. But going back to that moment, I felt like it's important to come back and give more to this institution that had a hand in my career today. But I also felt like I wanted to open doors to students, to young artists, to participate in the production process, to witness and understand what it takes to go and develop a proposal, then take it to install.
Speaker 4:How you put a team together to actually manage a particular project. What does creating programming around a project mean? And so I've opened my studio as a space for students to also come and intern and take part in these. In this process but not only for myself I've also opened door for students to go and mentor with my fellow colleagues. I mean, alia knows this. I always ask does anyone need an intern? Is Is anyone?
Speaker 4:interested in teaching someone, and I think that this is a very important way of learning as artists. You know, we can easily just hide in our studios, but I think it's really important in the scene particularly that we also pass it on and we also share. I think our scene is very community-based and that's important.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I think, honestly, the work that you're doing, and Janet and Alia, is a big part of creating that community. Not only so, but making people open to mentorship, open to guidance, open to how life-changing it can be for someone to tell you what about going to the arts department, which is something perhaps you never thought of or no one ever told you, and then you might not have ended up there without the power of that educational background. So, alia, I definitely saw you at the children's program, mentoring and educating yourself. Can you tell us more, please, about how the role of education has played a big part in your career?
Speaker 3:So definitely. I mean for me. As a child, I used to communicate through drawings. I've always struggled with the learning, with math, science, and I was able to understand how, how, why and why. Was I not good at something? But I was good at art and growing up we never thought that we could have a career in the arts and that's why I think when I went to.
Speaker 3:Zayed University, I did not study art. I graduated with PR and advertising, thinking that this is an official career. I will have an official job and that's what I'm supposed to do.
Speaker 1:So originally accounting and PR and advertising. I think this actually is a really interesting start to the story to be honest yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3:And after graduating I realized that I've always been passionate about art and moving forward. Now I created my own center. Now I created my own center and I wanted to have children like me, who had difficulty expressing themselves, have a place to feel like it's okay to express yourself and there's no wrong and right. I think that's what's really important to me, because growing up, we always felt like this is the wrong thing to do and this is the right thing, and I think in art there's no right or wrong, and that's what I think really shapes what I do every day.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I think I really want to take it back to Janice here and what Afra and Alia just said really kind of touches on the point of traditional education said really kind of touches on the point of traditional education, traditional arts education, versus something that is a little bit more contemporary and a little bit more involved. So what are your thoughts on that at Zayed University? Like how can we really involve, like you said, the community, the artists and every other fundamental individual around that ecosystem?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the ecosystem is quite important and actually we're in dialogue right now about we need to change Some of the things that we've been teaching. Let's say, traditionally still has been built from models that were developed decades ago.
Speaker 1:Can you give?
Speaker 2:us examples if possible at all. Yeah, some examples. So you know we have courses in Art Foundation, so the first courses students take and one thing that Afra said is we've always been with the ethos of building students' appreciation, but also their capabilities, with tools. So you might not, like Afra said, you didn't do any drawing or practice in that sense, but we have the tools and we help you, guide and use those tools, but it's been sort of very a concrete base and not really bringing that outside of the classroom. Yes, and and I think we're changing more as facilitators in education rather than just a we're at the front and lecturing about something and demonstrating, so it's a more proactive approach. So now we're taking also combining more various disciplines like design and digital fabrication and seeing what students can do with them and allow them to push those boundaries.
Speaker 1:Thank you. So I would love Afra to extend further on the idea of what can be done that is more helpful to the students. If you were a student, what do you wish you would have had access to? Because I know that you've done incredible programs and kind of practices, I believe in education that are it's not really just like let us draw still life or let us read a certain book, but what are some practices that really made a difference with you and your career?
Speaker 4:I mean the Sheikh Salama Emerging Artist Fellowship, was instrumental, you know, and it's a program where Meen Alia met for the first time and I think that, having access to programs with modules as such and the model of the SEAF program, the way it runs is that it's based on a five individual five models that run throughout nine months and they're intensive models.
Speaker 4:Each week of that model is tied around one assignment, one assessment and that assignment is collectively created by the cohort and they produce it within that week, and it includes feedback, it includes critique, it includes going outside of the studios, visiting sites that associate with the topic, for example.
Speaker 4:I think the more like what Jeanne was saying, in ways that we're trying to, for example. I think the more like what Jant was saying in in ways that we're trying to, for example, engage and collaborate with other alternative institutions and what we have access to. And I think that today we're very lucky I keep saying this to students and younger artists we're so lucky to be practicing in the art scene today because we have so many resources. We have institutions, museums that also function in adding to the academic understanding of art and culture right. But then we also have grants that allow us to challenge what is normal and challenge what is art today, and I think that we have that kind of power in actually influencing our students to aim for more than what we are presenting today, and there are support systems for that.
Speaker 4:Lourdes sorry if.
Speaker 2:I can add to that Because the ecosystem continues to grow. There's many more diverse institutions that have developed foundations, dubai Culture, dct that have enlarged, allowed artists the opportunity and there's still more room for this adaptation. One example, too what we've been doing is bringing students out in the field, and the exhibition that Zayed University students curated with the Dubai collection has been the first collaboration on a larger scale with Dubai culture and Art Dubai. So bringing the practice in class out to the practice in the field and that becomes the inspiration for others in the community and young artists are inspiring students to see the potential of also their future in arts and culture.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's a really interesting point because that makes the vision come to life. It makes it possible for a young artist to actually see what the reality of the end of this process looks like. So thank you for those two incredible points. I want to ask, alia, so the journey of Sif, first of all, I mean I would love to know, as well as Afra did tell us its impact on you as an alternative form of education, of becoming as an artist, and then not just that, how you felt it was important to mentor after that artists, because I feel like not, it's not the natural course. Not every artist must become a mentor and not every mentor should become an artist. It's not always that way. So can you tell us a bit more about it?
Speaker 3:I think the program was instrumental, especially that I did not take art as a master or a diploma in university. It was like an extra thing that I can do to push me towards my goal. It really gave me an understanding of the community and culture, of what is an artist and how to be an artist, and definitely highlighted the art practice in the studio rather than just the end result. I think for me that was the most important take from this program. On top of that is meeting amazing artists. I mean, in the end of the day, we're a small community and we really build by connecting with each other, learning from each other, and that was the best.
Speaker 3:I've always said that the best thing about the art community here in the UAE is everyone is there to help you if you just ask, especially from not having the experience in, for example, ceramics or other material. I would ask my friend who's an artist. She would teach me, or Salama would teach me printmaking. I think this natural want to teach and share information is such a neat thing in every artist, and wanting everyone to success and use other material is something really beautiful about the community of artists we have. I think that's what really really shaped my practice.
Speaker 1:Yes, and not just that. I think that maybe from being younger artists, I really believe you already kind of have experienced a very big arch in what has happened. A lot has happened in the past few years and you years and you always say after that you are very lucky to be, you know, practicing at the moment. So I would love to know from you, when you're teaching students at Zayed University, for example, what do you feel their biggest wants and needs are from the educational system? Like what do you think that they crave more of?
Speaker 4:wow, I saw one of our students here really, that's amazing um, personally, I get asked a lot of like how do we do this, how did you? You do it? You know, and I'm always in awe when I'm asked this question I obviously sit and I give a lot of my time to actually propose ideas or suggest a post-graduation plan.
Speaker 4:I teach the seniors as well, so there's a lot of mentorship in that course, getting them to the finish line and finally presenting their final projects. But I do talk to them a lot about the opportunities that await them and, as I said earlier, there's a lot of opportunities now compared to when I graduated, for example, in 2011. And, for example, we have I'll talk about Abu Dhabi. For example, there's the Cultural Foundation residency. They can apply to see if they're nominated, for example and as faculty, a lot of us are nominators anyway, so we always nominate our students. There's the 421 residency as well, of course. There's a lot happening that they can. I mean, jamil offers, you know, the young. What is it called?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I forgot Young, something, something, sorry the youth assembly, the young assembly, the youth assembly yeah, the youth assembly, which allows our artists to not only participate uh as artists and show their work, but they can also participate in uh proposing curatorial ideas and they can curate their other you know friends and so on, which really opens doors for them to think. One of the things I get asked about a lot is how did you start your studio space, for example?
Speaker 4:or how do we, where do we go, how do we start? And I've always encouraged starting as a group, and I started as a group. We had a space called B815, which I co-founded with Hashim Lemke, maitha Abdullah and Zuhura Sayegh. So there was that as an example and we had many students who had interned with us there and then started their own spaces.
Speaker 1:So, for example, studio Arisha right now studio Untitled, like these are all examples of places that actually came out of these kind of conversations of how do we do it and where do we start and I love, first of all, that you answer these conversations, that you answer these questions, because I think there's there is quite a bit of gatekeeping in the arts world and I feel some artists do find it difficult to kind of share the whole process. But I think you're one of the artists that really does and you show it and I love that. I think it's incredible. So, janet, I would love for you to tell us a little bit more about CASE, because I think it would be helpful to understand, kind of how this entire department of Zayas University kind of fuels that creative ecosystem, like we said at the beginning.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh, that's a long story. I don't know if we have all that time.
Speaker 1:You can give us the brief.
Speaker 3:I will give you a brief.
Speaker 2:You know we're a complete studio-based program, visual arts and design programs. We've been 1998, zayed University was established for an all-female university, and around 2003, they started with design because the industry had opportunities for that. So that was easy to comprehend. But as the ecosystem grew in Dubai, so did our programs, so did the ability to advocate the need for this.
Speaker 2:So we went from a department of art to a college of art and creative enterprises and we continued to transform. So one of the important things and I think, the other educational institutions here, like NYU, abu Dhabi, sharjah University, american University of Sharjah, american University, dubai we all have a role to play and there's still room to grow. So, going from an undergraduate institution, we're working now on graduate programs and connecting more with the community. You know, one of the things that we recently asked students you know what's most important to them from our program is community, their ability to talk to each other, to talk with their faculty and those that we invite to come and talk with our students. It's really important. I hope we can find opportunities to engage more and I think that's where things are going, because once you go out into the real world, things are different.
Speaker 2:You're not in these silos, and that's one thing, I think we need to also expand on and be fluid, because that's the conversations that are going on today and, yeah, Thank you.
Speaker 1:So a question I really wanted to ask, alia, is you know, I saw you just with the children's program, the ARM children's program, and sort of working with the children, getting them to sort of bring their creative juices out, and in a very curated and wonderful way. Curated and wonderful way. So I just want to know what do you think the importance is? To sort of allow children to be creative from a young age, something that perhaps neither you or Afra had an opportunity to do, and so you had to kind of not play catch-up in that sense. But how important is it and and how is it that you actually go about working with such younger minds?
Speaker 3:I mean it's really important to expose children from a young age to materials allowing them to use, explore, play with and be adventurous and really explain to them that there is no right and wrong, because I feel that because of the, the classic discipline of art, especially from a very young age, limits that.
Speaker 3:And from my experience, I mean, when I meet someone and I tell them I'm an artist, the first thing they tell me oh, I don't know how to paint, I don't know how to draw, and I was like, yes, I was like what did your art teacher tell you as a kid? But they're like, yeah, she didn't, she didn't like my drawing. That's the first thing they say. That's really sad and that's every question I ask. That's the common answer I have and that's why I really believe that it's very vital for the young minds is not to limit them and really encourage creative thinking, allowing them to make mistakes. I feel that's the purpose I am here in the world is to tell children it's okay to make mistakes and it really shocks them. Sometimes I give them tasks like draw outside the line, or you're only allowed to draw outside the line, and they're like what is wrong with her?
Speaker 3:So I think it's trying to change this mindset of it's okay to make mistakes. Maybe you will learn the skills later on, but as a young mind that's the purpose you are allowed to make mistakes, you are allowed to play, you are allowed to put materials that don't make sense together, and I feel that's that's what the whole purpose of me to giving workshops or teaching children at a young age amazing.
Speaker 1:I love that incredible. So okay, on the point of play actually I'll take a tafra here I think your work really is such an epitome of what the essence of play is, how you can become an interdisciplinary, human and kind of play with sight, sound, voice, all of the senses. I'd love you to tell us a little bit more about that. I think it's a different approach, I think it's such a unique approach and it makes art I hate using the word accessible, but I think it's a word that really your work can embody and it's a beautiful thing. So can you tell us a bit more about how you got to that point in your art?
Speaker 4:It's a very good question. I mean these works that you're talking about, the collective exhaustion and deconstructing collective exhaustion, which are immersive experiences that I've developed, installations that include sound and light, that is engineered in a way that actually loops the easiest way to describe it is like a shuffle. It's never the same, so it actually invites the audience to stay in that place for longer moments of time. For every person, who, an individual who would experience it, I'm kind of providing a space for them to have their own interpretation, their own experience, so everyone would have a completely different experience at different timings when they attend the work. One of the reasons that I embarked on this journey and found myself kind of hands itching, wanting to try something new, and I got bored of what I was doing Simple.
Speaker 1:Yes, tell us more.
Speaker 4:I mean not to demean my practice, but I felt like I got too good at using my materiality and I've established a language that I became so fluent at Right and I went I can easily, you know, put materials together and make meaning out of them and make them make sense, and people would enjoy them. And at some point I was like and then what? Yeah, and I wanted more, and I, you know, my hands were itching. I wanted something that challenges me. I wanted something that like what else can I learn? And I started observing our interaction when, as an audience, how much time we spend in exhibition spaces, and I realized that, if not anchored by a conversation, sometimes we just pull up our phone, take pictures and leave.
Speaker 4:So then what happened to feeling art? What happened to art having actually an impact or a resonance on us? And so I went into a bit more psychology and philosophy and I started reading a lot of Byung Chul Han, specifically like the scent of time, and it talks a lot about our relationship to time, and there's a lot of impatience in the, in the, in the pace that we're living at at the moment, and so I wanted to take people back to activating their senses. How can I create a peace that people actually experience, not only with their eye and actually with their skin, with their hearing, and so I referenced it to a walk in the forest. It's so invigorating and you leave refreshed.
Speaker 4:Why? Because you activate the senses, not only the five, but all the ones that we don't talk about, and so I wanted to create that. And people leaving that space maybe they don't necessarily get triggered or remember everything at once, but maybe they'll walk into a space that has a similar lighting and it will trigger that work. Maybe they listen to a certain key or score and they might go back to that place, so they take something with them that they don't necessarily understand. Sorry, it was such a long answer.
Speaker 4:No, no, this is how I got there, but where I went to a program in the States Watermill Art Center and I did a summer program there that you know served the itching yes.
Speaker 1:No, honestly, I love your answer and I will never forget when you were working on this project and we were at your studio and you told me I'm going to show people what it feels like after burnout or after just feeling exhausted, and I think it's kind of an awakening, really, like you make people wake up, use your senses actually kind of really interact with the arts.
Speaker 1:And I mean, going back to what Alia said, getting out of the box, why are we in the box? Yes, and it's really why we're here, it's why we're talking about this, I think, for my last couple of questions, for all of you, even though I could really talk about this topic for hours, janet, I'd love for you to share with us. I mean, at Zayed University, like you said, there's so much going on. What are the you know kind of artists that you're looking to work with in the future? I mean like artists that you feel will not specifically. I'm not talking to say who exactly, but the kind of mindset that you're looking to instill in the students and just to make sure that the redirection is happening.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, that's what we're trying to decide right now or discuss, but I think a few things is also reflecting back what we see happening in the community and in the region especially, and some of the conversations that I've had going to see exhibitions and participating in these kind of dialogues, and one thing that first comes to mind is performance and thinking about also Afra's installation in Abu Dhabi really resonates with that music or sound, computational sound.
Speaker 2:So artists that are doing, I think, in the digital art fair right now. So bringing in a dialogue that we're already not teaching or we don't have expertise in because you know we have limitations that way. But another way to bring the conversation forward, to bring another opportunity to teach or open that dialogue for us to rethink, is to bring those voices in there. And also, you know what's elsewhere, what's the global conversations about, of course, and one of the things that's close to my heart is climate resilience. You know, we've just had Expo 2020, I mean a few years ago now but the conversations that are happening with the Ministry of Culture and the Ministry of Climate Change Change and bringing those two together.
Speaker 2:So if that's happening, we need to be having those conversations now in the institutions and we see that with artists already practicing. But how does that translate? So, if we can have conversations, if we can work with institutions to bring those individuals, those experts, internally talk to the scientists that are also doing things to have that conversation and, as well, bring our students out so for them to see that happening in the field, and I think that's where, at Zayed University, we're really looking towards, or those are the kind of individuals we can invite and like events like Art Dubai. There's there's experts, whether they're practicing artists or designers or architects. All of those should be integrated and not integrated, but brought in and talking to all the students across all disciplines, and they, and, I think, working with the galleries, the museums, the curators, whether in the institution or independent, is how I'd like to sort of take the next steps forward.
Speaker 1:I think that sounds incredible and also very inspirational. I think performance. You really nailed it on that one. I think a lot of people are really definitely even in the fair you see the pieces that the more you can interact especially for children and for adults too it's really the more you can get emotionally connected to the art. And so my last question for every single one of you is a question I believe my audience will always want me to ask and always cherish. We're very detail-oriented at the curation. How is it that you make sure that you self-educate yourself? What are your practices and any advice you could give, not specifically on education, not only in art, but what are your ways to make sure that you stay refreshed and educated? And any one of you can start there Me, alia.
Speaker 3:I mean, I get definitely inspired by my fellow artists If, walking through the fair, we take images of the artist's name research that who's the new artist there. So I think that really helped me get to know my environment. At the end of the day, learning does not finish. You have to keep learning and educating yourself, either through online or through meeting people. Which is the easiest part is meeting actual artists and getting to know them. I think that's the most enjoyable experience in learning when you actually meet artists and ask them what material you use, how long do you work on a work? When did this finish? I mean, this information really boosts me and then I'm like, okay, what can I do? What else can I do? We met an artist yesterday. He spends 10 hours a day painting and.
Speaker 3:I'm like that's not what I do and maybe I should do this so. So yeah, I think that's how I encourage myself. Thank you, afra.
Speaker 4:I learn a lot from my students, I have to be honest. They challenge me at times and they ask you know, especially in the senior class when they come up with the research topics. Sometimes I have to research and educate myself in order to assist them or work alongside them to kind of further develop and find references for them, and so on. So I'm always learning as I'm teaching. That's one Personally and in my art practice, I try to make sure that I go to residencies, do programs in order to not only learn new skills but also expose myself to an alternative art scene, because this could easily be a comfortable bubble, of course, and I think that it's very important to challenge what we know and challenge what we've learned here, but also become aware of how other art scenes function and maybe how they're challenged, how they struggle, how they navigate the art scene in their heart.
Speaker 1:That's a very good point.
Speaker 4:yes, yeah, and in that I travel a lot to also visit alternative institutions. Not only that, but like grassroots-run organizations, I think these are important and that's where movements happen, and so at least, yeah, that's how I keep up.
Speaker 1:I think that's a great point. To avoid stagnation, you have to keep going and Janet as the dean. I don't know if we need to ask you this as the dean of a case, but we'd love to hear.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I mean it's really everywhere and everyone, and for me it's really important the conversation and asking those questions and not being afraid to see what we'll learn from them and go out of the comfort zone, because we tend to, especially in institutions, stick within this comfortable area and change is very difficult, especially institutions and trying to push that, sometimes in different ways, by just doing it. I would even say even the exhibition I mentioned, the Dubai collection we just started, and I said let's just do it, let's start it and work out the rest as as it goes. So I think for me, working alongside Afra, for example, different generations and seeing the growth I learned from her, from Alia working out in a different sector of education, and I think together it's the ecosystem that really we need to continue paying attention from.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. Thank you to every single one of you for taking the time to talk about this incredible topic and actually give us your true insights and all of your tips and make sure that you can all listen to this podcast on the curation, and I just want to thank every single one of you again, Janet Afra Alia, for your time. Thank you, Thank you. Thank you so much.