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The Curation by Nour Hassan
The Curation, formerly Radical Contemporary, is a Digital Curator and Podcast based between Cairo, Dubai & Jeddah. We curate everything from art, fashion, and design, to culture, wellness and tech to present you with only the best brands, founders, products and pioneers.
The Curation by Nour Hassan
Lamia Kamel: We Worked On The Presidential Campaign
PR virtuoso Lamia Kamel graces our latest episode with our founder Nour Hassan, sharing her wisdom on brand building and cultural curation. Listen as she unpacks the essence of creating a reputable brand image and the importance of stepping outside comfort zones for personal and professional growth. Lamia’s insights, drawn from her extensive experience with influential figures and initiatives like CC+ and the Narrative Summit, highlight the vital role of storytelling and collaboration in shaping Egypt’s narrative and the broader Arab world.
Join us as we celebrate the power of mentorship and community engagement. Lamia and I discuss the evolution of public relations in Egypt, the challenges of bridging government and private sectors, and the triumphs of women in the industry. From fashion and personal branding to sustainability and global recognition, perfect for anyone eager to learn from a pioneer in PR.
• Importance of lifelong learning in personal growth
• Misconceptions about PR and its true purpose
• CC+ as a pioneer in the Egyptian PR landscape
• Narrative Summit's role in shaping Egypt's story
• Collaboration between public and private sectors in tourism
• Balancing professional commitments and family life
• Advice for young people on finding their passions
• Significance of personal branding and authenticity
For more PR insights follow @loomykamel and for more information on the Narrative Summit follow @narrativesummit.
Action. Welcome to the Curation, a show for the culturally curious. This is your host, noor Hassan. Each week, I'll guide you through a curated edit of the finest in art, fashion, design, culture, luxury, wellness, tech and more. This is your go-to space for discovering trailblazing ideas, untold stories and meaningful conversations with innovators and creators who are shaping our world. There's no gatekeeping here, so sit back, tune in and let's discover only the best together. Who is Lamia Kamen?
Speaker 2:for example and ChatGPT.
Speaker 1:It's both me and Elton.
Speaker 2:Big part of what they do is to glorify and magnify the kind of insights you feed them with.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Because it's real, because it's on ground and you are a mentor. I'm very grateful to people like you. You love the sunset. Yes, I love the dawn. I love the beginnings of anything. I love the events. I love the events. I love the chat. I love social media.
Speaker 1:We are culturally. We like chatting, we like social media. We are culturally, we are famous.
Speaker 2:It's part of who we are. I didn't have a work-life balance.
Speaker 1:I was mostly work.
Speaker 2:It's okay to be low-key. It will come when it comes. When we did campaigns, we made PR a full spectrum. I was lucky because I was working with the most important politician in the Arab region. He was Sayed Amr Am region. I was Mr Amr Moussa. I worked after that in 2014 as the president. When I became assistant minister. I became so passionate. It has a lot of light. Yes, you can go anywhere. You can go anywhere you want. People treat you with so much respect. You need to get over this. As soon as I get out of the bag, they tell me I'm going on a mission difficult to figure out.
Speaker 1:Who's the person? Is that so you're the person? Pr answer.
Speaker 2:If you gave me the business card, I'll give you the business card. Okay, but if you gave me the business card, that's a professional, okay.
Speaker 1:Action. Okay, I'm now Adam Alamia Kamel, pr guru in the MENA region and in Egypt. I was very excited about this interview because I feel like a long time ago and I want to talk to you about not only PR and communications, but in general, how important it is to build a brand image and a brand reputation for yourself. I feel like you are one of the most people that has really done an incredible job and like not only you built a brand such as CC plus and narrative summit and and the brand, but I think you're really a mentor and a guru in this field. So thank you for being on the podcast.
Speaker 2:I'm so proud. It's my absolute pleasure to be with you. I have been, we've been close. Yes, I've been watching your career and I've been watching how dedicated and disciplined and consistent you have been and women girls were able to create something for themselves and build a brand and support others. Build it with them. I think you stand on top of many people.
Speaker 1:Thank you, lamia, coming from you. Thank you, but okay, so I want to ask you the first question who is Lamia Kamel today? If you could explain to me today.
Speaker 2:If you could explain to me today. I always say to my team and to my friends and to my colleagues I want to always be the learner. I don't want to be stuck in a place where I think or assume that I've made it or that I'm there already, because it's very tempting to assume so oh my God, look what I've done. Blah, blah, blah. And then you get stuck in this comfort zone and once you're in the comfort zone, uh, you, you. It's really difficult to to um, grow, and I'm a firm believer that, no matter how big you are, no matter how well you've achieved for yourself, there is always room for more as long as you're alive, as long as there is a morning coming. Every day.
Speaker 2:I imagine that everyone of us, everyone who is able to get rid of the boundaries of the position or the job or the so-called achievement, because so many people have done so much more and that's what keeps me inspired is by looking at the legends and what they have done across board, be it singers, actors, scientists, professionals, all those people who have done so much for the industries and for the masses. When I look at these people, it keeps me grounded. Yes, because I feel there's so much that can be done, versus when I sit down and say I swear I'm good at this, this is great, very nice, very nice. When I sit down and write my name, I find myself present and I write nice things. This is great.
Speaker 1:Speaking of, I'm going to write your name. To prepare for this episode, I do a lot of research on every guest. And to prepare for this episode, Of course, I do a lot of research on every guest. Okay, and I'm still, of course, not only doing research on guests, but I go to ChatGPT and ask who is Lamia Kamel, for example. And ChatGPT not only knows you, it wrote me an essay.
Speaker 2:It wrote me an essay.
Speaker 1:Everything she founded CC+, and then Narrative Summit and then, and it took me through the career and I felt, wow, that's impressive, because not everyone gets this answer, obviously not everyone at all, and it's an advanced technology, but still so, this told me a lot I was, I was, I was social or Google or social media in general.
Speaker 2:A big part of what they do is to glorify and magnify the kind of insights you feed them with. Yes, what's really important is the impact that you have recognition much more than digital.
Speaker 2:Because, because it's real, because it's on ground, because you're a human being who's actually acknowledging something and and seeing it, and sometimes social can take you to this parallel world that can confuse you, of course, but so when you go on on, like events or summits or or conferences or learning experiences, like classrooms, like when you go to a university, you find all those students listening to you and wanting to learn more.
Speaker 2:I think this is a very important achievement, because a big part of our role as people in it to pass on, to help others yes, to help others realize their dreams, and, and this is what we should do yet, while you're doing it for yourself, you need to pass on to help others grow, to help others realize their dreams, and this is what we should do. While you're doing it for yourself, you need to see what other people are doing and materialize it for them and see how you can be part of that part of their story. I love that, and maybe this is also a big part of what I want to talk about. Where do you find yourself now?
Speaker 2:I think at this point, I owe so much to the country and to so much of the Arab world in general. I never saw Egypt as a standalone country. I saw Egypt as a big part of this community and a big part of this national Arab narrative that needs to stand out and I feel in faces like us, people who are educated, people who, like us, people who are educated, people who work hard, people who are genuine. They need to play a role in provoking this and showing the world what this country and what this region is capable of, and a big part of it is storytelling, as you always mentioned. A big part of it is teaching and working with others and promoting and working communication and shedding light on all these amazing initiatives and projects. So, when I think about myself, as much as I'm a learner, yes, but I really like to see my country and the entire region reaching the potential that they deserve, reaching where they are, and I think this comes with a lot of collaboration and engagement.
Speaker 1:Bagadda, al-insi Otida is part of the mission, of the curation not just the podcast, but the curation that we're doing with the guests on the podcast, and you are a mentor. This is something else. You don't downplay that. This is it. I loved what you said and, honestly, our audience is regional. Yes, due to my upbringing and background, the audience is from saudi, from the uae, from e Egypt. I feel that, because of this, there's so much to learn from people like you.
Speaker 1:Of course I want to know before we get into the nitty-gritty, before we get into all the incredible things that you've done, but first I want you to tell me what is your morning routine when you wake up, when you wake up.
Speaker 2:What are the details when you wake up?
Speaker 1:Islamia when I have the details.
Speaker 2:Before I wake up, I feel very grateful. I feel like, oh my God, I'm a morning person and that's because I love the sunset. Yes, I love the dawn. I love the dawn, I love the beginnings of anything, I love the initiation of everything, I love everything small and I see it grow. So I wake up in the morning feeling grateful, feeling energized. I love that. I wake up at around 7am I think. From 7am to 8am I stay in a meditative position. I stay focused, I think I do this and that, and then I move out of bed and then I start my routine. My routine is basically after I finish this shot, I have to get to work.
Speaker 1:I know it sounds a bit crazy, but I have to jump into work. There's no in-between like. Okay, so you're taking an hour for yourself, but there's nothing in the middle of the coffee.
Speaker 2:As it happens, I'm not the type who has to take the coffee to get up. I'm the type who gets up and the coffee will be in the middle In the water, exactly.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:That's nice. So, that's real. And then, while I'm taking my coffee, I have to check what's going on in the world. I have to check the news, I have to check my email, I have to go through my checklist and guess what? I finish most of my work from 8 to 11.
Speaker 1:Wow, really. So you're really a morning person.
Speaker 2:I finish all my work, I send my emails. I look at my work, I do my work, I finish all of that and then I send my emails. I look at my work, I do my work, I finish this part and then I exercise.
Speaker 1:Wow, I love that. That's actually so interesting. And see the first guest, or from the first guest. You told me about this system and I feel that many of the books that she read you know, the books that tell you how to Sharma the 5am club all of them talk about wake up early and get the big chunk out of the way. Out of the way, but it's hard.
Speaker 2:It's hard. I'll tell you why it's hard Because we take a long time at night. We, as Arab and Egyptian people, love the night a lot, a lot. I know, if you ask me. We love going out, we love events, we love calling the phone, we love chatting, we like social media.
Speaker 1:We are. Culturally we are we are, of course, it's part of who we are.
Speaker 2:But I mean and this is not wrong, as long as you don't do it every day, right, if you can do it two or three days a week and four days, you stick to waking up early, you'll be fine. There's no need to be like foreigners six days a week. You can't be like foreigners Six days a week. You have to wake up at 10 and wake up at 6. It's not necessary. Maybe 3 or 4 days and 3 days like this. You can split it In the early days. Exercise yes, because I'm a firm believer In exercise.
Speaker 1:I love that it keeps you healthy.
Speaker 2:It keeps you alert, it keeps you happy, it keeps you energized, it keeps you able to do more. Unfortunately, we also have A culture happy, it keeps you energized, it keeps you able to do more. Exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise exercise, exercise, exercise, exercise exercise exercise stretching. Uh, I think I exercise between four to five times a week.
Speaker 1:That's, that's good, yeah, four to five times. I mean. I think you know, so would you say, that a lot of your success in life is attributed to in a morning routine established?
Speaker 2:okay, it was mostly a lot of work and a lot of dedication and discipline and I didn't have a work-life balance. I could mostly work. I used to ask people, I used to ask someone work-life balance. It depends on the time, but at first.
Speaker 1:This is nice, this is nice.
Speaker 2:This is the reality, yeah, okay. You have to choose something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, fair.
Speaker 2:And if you want to really excel, if you really want to stand out, if you want to really excel, if you really want to stand out, then a big chunk of your youth has to be dedicated to work. And don't shy away from working at night and working around the clock, because it's a phase and I'm telling everyone here this is not an eternal phase. Right, work when you can work, because after that you won't be able to, you'll be too tired, you'll have to work-life balance. The best to spend time, more time with your kids or with your grandkids. Do you want to really work hard in your 50s, are we?
Speaker 1:no, no in your 20s and 30s when you're able to yeah, do it.
Speaker 1:But you know what? The one thing that I really really characterize with you as lamia is that you have, you have the passion, masha'allah, you really do and it's something that is very infectious. Yeah, you feel it and I think this is something that really really helps. But I want to go back a little bit. Mikey, can you tell me a bit about your upbringing in the sense of did you grow up in Egypt and were you always a very, let's say, social person? Did you always know how to talk to people?
Speaker 2:easily. I'll tell you something very interesting. Growing up, I've grown up in Egypt all my life, but I traveled a lot with my family. Growing up, I traveled a lot and I still value travel so much. My family, because they're both. They worked in the Foreign Affairs Ministry of Foreign Affairs. My father was a diplomat, so they have this culture and DNA which is social and diplomatic and we love people. We love to treat people with kindness, we love to treat people with love and we love to travel.
Speaker 2:You want to be exposed, you learn from others, you're not judgmental, you're tolerant to other people's mindsets. That helps a lot. It helps me a lot. Growing up, I was shy, I was more low-key and then, with time, when someone tells you you're a shy person, push him to be more social. Yes, no, my family never pushed me.
Speaker 2:She came alone All of a sudden. You found it Exactly. You embrace who, you are Interesting, you feel loved, you feel accepted. Yeah, so you grow. You grow out of everything. If someone is low-key, he will be a scum. This, this stress, yes, does not bring the best out of anyone here blacks, and they embrace that person. It's okay to be low-key, it's okay to be quiet, it's okay, but it will come when it comes. But you encourage them to play sports, which what my family did. They would help me. We played a little ballet, we played a little tennis, we played a little swimming. We did all these things. It's a pleasure, it's a pleasure. So they help you To work on yourself, to be athletic. They help you To be competitive, right.
Speaker 2:I mean A good student in school. So my family Was very interested in studying, very interested in us. Not because of books, okay, because when you're a student you're disciplined.
Speaker 1:That's it.
Speaker 2:You're committed to doing something and delivering it with quality. Yeah, when I was younger, I didn't understand what they meant. I thought what does it mean to be a student? What do grades mean? Grades are not important. What's important to me? What's important to me is that I'm a student and I love it. No, the issue is مهمة بشاطرة في اللي أنا بحبه. لا هي الموضوع مش مسألة grades.
Speaker 2:Right هو الدسيبلين في أن الواحد يسحى كل يوم بيعمل حاجة مظبوطة, بيعملها consistently be delivered Right وإنت student, ما انت دورك إيه وإنت student, دورك أنك تذاكر, وتنجح, وتعمل رياضة, وتب your best. That's why I always noticed with my family that they treated us as siblings differently. They saw everyone as smart and they pushed them in this area. For example, if someone is smart in grades, do your best in grades. If someone is smart in sports, push yourself in sports a little. So there wasn't a place for everyone to have A students.
Speaker 1:I love that it depends, but that's not very Egyptian, can I tell you.
Speaker 2:That's not very Egyptian.
Speaker 1:Culturally. We like to say to you that you want to be a student and there's a kind of interaction in this matter Very much, but would you say your parents encouraged you to be yourself.
Speaker 2:Very much. They encouraged me to be myself and they wanted me to. They put in us A place of Excellence and consistency and conscience that a person has a conscience in what he does. So, no, we don't sleep unless we're done. We wake up in the morning. We're still awake.
Speaker 2:I was a little bit lazy as a child. I woke up early and, ironically, I woke up early after that. Very ironic, very, but I don't. I'll tell you something Very interesting I wake up early, but I don't Go to work early. Right, I mean, I'm not the type who in the office At 8.30. I've never been able to do it. Yes, and I think A big part of I mean I was a corporate a big part of my life. I was a corporate for three or four years so I had to go early. But it wasn't who I am. I'm more of a creative person. I like to think about things and then I go to meet people the second half of the day and you execute on whatever it is Execute on what I thought of, on what you envisioned, exactly.
Speaker 1:Very nice. Okay, I want to get into the beginning of PR. Because PR? I'd love to know what's your definition of PR, because PR is a very elusive field. You feel like a lot of people understand what PR is and work on it, but I feel like in Egypt in particular, cc+, the agency that you founded, was a real pioneer in PR, because we didn't understand much in the market and, to be honest, there's still a misunderstanding regarding APR versus, for example, marketing and branding and other things. So you're the expert. Can you tell us what your definition is?
Speaker 2:PR always mess. Mess with marketing, with branding, with advertising. You feel like that in the gray it is. When I started PR, when I graduated in 1999, I always thought that PR is a very interesting field that's not yet fully comprehended. People don't understand it Right. When I worked at Vodafone I worked at Vodafone a little bit in PR I noticed that there was a gap between PR that we see in books and PR that is done abroad and we are in two banks. Okay, there was a clear gap because people didn't know PR is about the message. Yes, and the message is not an advertising message. It's more of an indirect, consistent, long-term message that you build over time. So it's not about these cups of tea are the best cups of tea in the world or this detergent will clean you up. In three seconds You'll find this detergent will clean all your clothes.
Speaker 1:No, I loved what you were saying, so it's a long-term message.
Speaker 2:Exactly when you do PR today, you don't say anything about yourself, okay. You have a vision, a certain content, a certain positioning, and then, over time, you work on it through others Interesting and who are the others, the stakeholders? So you use the media, you use social media. You use social media, you use your connections Right. You use investors. If you're an institution, you use your investors. You use your employees, your team, you use all the players around you to focus on this message. Okay, and this message, you understand it.
Speaker 2:Later Today, I will talk about leadership or I will talk about quality and creativity. This is my message. I work on it. So I engage with the creatives, I engage with the designers, I create new products. I start working on this as PR PR products, by the way. You create PR products that support this and eventually, your positioning will materialize, because this is the kind of PR we, as CC Plus, worked on. You had to work on it with big multinational companies who believe in this. This is how it started. And then, in 2016, when we were celebrating 10 years in the market, we created a PR product, which is the Narrative Summit.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Which is a storytelling platform that aims to build the PR of Egypt, not just PR of companies, exactly so this is my passion in PR how to make PR meaningful, to enable it to have purpose.
Speaker 1:But see, I'm going to tell you something. I think there's no one who can explain it like this. It is so on point, especially in the long term, in the branding and marketing, especially now with social media. It's trends, it's gone, it's done, it's next, tiktok especially. But PR really is the long term, it's the long game, it's the it's done, it's next TikTok especially. But PR really is the long term, it's the long game, it's the long game and utilizing all of that.
Speaker 1:I love that. I think it's so interesting. I want to know, when you founded CC+ and then celebrated 10 years, what was a mark in that span of career for CC+? Did you feel like, wow, we really did a big thing in the market?
Speaker 2:It was the political campaigns actually In 2011 to 2014,. The company was in the market for six years, but we were in the most important political election campaigns and there was no one else who was doing it.
Speaker 1:It's an example. We did a campaign in 2012.
Speaker 2:There were presidential elections. Now, presidential elections don't have no many players in the presidential elections, but at the time there were players. There was Amr Moussa, and so on. It was in its phase in 2011 and 2012. Actually, we were part of this. So when we did presidential campaigns, pr makes a full spectrum Persona, personality, how he talks, how he responds. So now the PR is a full spectrum, yes, persona, how he speaks, how he responds.
Speaker 2:And I was lucky because I was working with the most important politician in the Arab region, mr Amr Moussa. Wow, he taught us how to do this. When you work with an important person like that, you learn. So I was able to apply what I learned in this campaign to other things. So I worked after that in 2014 in the campaign of President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi. I was with him in the work group. We weren't the poor people in the whole campaign, of course, of course, but we were part of the group, of course, and we were the poor people in the media. And then we entered the economic conference in 2015. At that time, egypt was undergoing a transformation. Yes, it was a political transformation.
Speaker 2:It was a social transformation and it was a phase after the revolution and after a lot of things. So there was a phase of building. We tried to build infrastructure. So I was part of this and I felt wow this milestone is important.
Speaker 2:We did not just corporate PR, we also did political PR and we were part of a nation brand. So let's materialize this journey and create something official for the country. That's called the narrative summit, by the way, all the people who do your nation brand. By the way, bringing people on your podcast and speaking about their dreams and visions and putting this on camera is part of what you're doing for the country.
Speaker 1:And I want to know more about Narrative Summit. So Narrative Summit is a product. It's very, very, very unique and it's also one of a kind in what you do in pr right it is basically a product of pr, as you said, and generally, you want to explain to me what was the idea of narrative summit when you started it. How did you manage to curate the perfect mix of guests in whom I represent to, or I mean because they represent Egypt?
Speaker 2:When we came in 2016,. Cc Plus was 10 years old, right, and we were still feeling that there was a gap between the perception of Egypt and the capabilities of Egypt.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So Egypt is not fully perceived and, at the same time, there's so much potential. There's youth potential, entrepreneurship, potential, creativity out there, in every step, in every corner, and we're outside of that. So the idea of the narrative was to enable PR. You wanted to serve your industry, definitely, and we are professionals. You want to serve your industry Definitely, and we are professionals. You want to show them that you do something that is of impact. Yes, so the first thing was To enable PR and the second thing how can PR shape the country and improve the image of the country? So we started in 2016, 2016, 2017, 2018, until 2023. It's a summit, a summit that gathers all these people and puts content, and puts recipes, and gathers people From the first minister To the Bank of the State, to the heavyweight businessmen Like Mohamed Mansour, sir Ben Elliot, to the creatives Diab Omar Hilal All of these Were guests on our stage. Well, ironically, I was never a guest on stage and I never stood on stage To speak about this. I was always welcoming the speakers Interesting.
Speaker 2:I am the one Bringing those people. I am not here to glorify Myself and to say how amazing I've done. No, I'm here to celebrate and to emphasize those speakers Because you finally want to reach them. You want to reach these people. You put points, you put structure to how things should be in fashion, in design, in singing, in composing, in business in sports, everything you had, every category, all recommendations were written.
Speaker 1:When Narrative PR Summit last year it was huge.
Speaker 2:It was huge, yes, although in the room In one of the big hotels, four seasons, for example. Post-covid, the appetite has changed, of course. It's no longer. You don't want to go to a conference From 7am until 8pm and then leave. You want to go to a destination. And at that time I benefited From the point that I am and then leave. You want to go to a destination. When I became assistant minister, I was.
Speaker 2:I became so passionate about tourism for the narrative of 2023 was about this, was about destination branding yes, within the context of leadership as well.
Speaker 1:Yes, which was soma bay you know which was Soma Bay, you know.
Speaker 2:Which was Soma Bay. Soma Bay and Soma Bay got so excited about it so they want it every year now.
Speaker 1:I take it as fair. No, but like I'll tell you something, I want to go back a little bit to my experience. And I want you to tell me about your tenure as Assistant Minister of the Ministry of Tourism and Antiquities. Yes, this is a really, really important role and potentially something that, you know, not a lot of people will get to experience, and I want to know, honestly, two things what was the most important thing, for example, that you learned or learned from this experience, and what was the hardest thing?
Speaker 2:I want to tell you one thing, Noor. The government is a difficult experience, or not difficult, actually. It's an experience that people don't like to enter. They complain about it. They tell you that the money is low, routine red tape. It's not something people will be welcome to.
Speaker 1:There are a lot of red flags, as they say, but you did it, which I think is a major testament to not only your risk appetite, but also that you know how to navigate this.
Speaker 2:So we need to learn the first thing I did when I went to the ministry. I went to the ministry and I know how to get out of the ministry and this is the most important thing one must know, because the ministry can be very interesting and it has a lot of light. Okay, okay, and I won't stay long. So you go with this mindset Interesting, you won't stay long, you go, do something and teach the people inside how to complete it Like a mission Mission and the people inside the ministry. I'm not the daughter of the ministry, I'm here to help the ministry. But there are people who came out of the ministry. Yes, you have to come. Yes, definitely, right, right, to at least deliver on something, to continue. So that was the mission for me.
Speaker 2:I worked with a great leader, dr Khadir Al-Anani, who is now the director of UNESCO. When I went, I knew who I was going with and I chose this person because I saw how much he believes in Egypt and how committed he is to the country and how creative he is. I'm always after people who have this nudge for creativity and people who are out of the box. So when I worked with Hassan, he had a vision for the Graduation Museum he had a vision for and we did. We did the mummies and the kibosh. I was a big part of it. I was a part of a big team.
Speaker 1:Definitely.
Speaker 2:For me, yes, yes, definitely, and to glorify this position. I didn't know so from the beginning I knew it was a stage to give back, to invest in a position and to glorify this position. But people are very afraid of the ministry.
Speaker 2:When I went, I encouraged a lot of people. It's a nice thing when you come, you go. When you come, you volunteer and I encourage all, by the way, women and men of work to take time off and work on the government. They'll see another side, yes, and it's a challenge Very, and then the country needs to see new issues Right and issues. When I went to the ministry Noor, the first thing I did was change the position on LinkedIn and put my position and put an email for my department, promotion at Ministry of Tourism and Tourism Right. I want to tell you this is a very important topic for us coming from the private sector. It was huge for the ministry that you have an official email, that there is a person called Lamia Kamel who held the promotion of the ministry. A flood it's huge, a flood of emails came to us. Yes, fascinating 100 opportunities that are available that are just that.
Speaker 1:You put your email fascinating because it's a point of access and also credibility, so the two together is okay. So who do I reach out to? This is something that, by the way, a lot of people, especially with countries like Egypt, find it very difficult to figure out. Who's the person exactly? So you're the person, for example.
Speaker 2:I don't know, this is a few boxes. Yes that I took this and I was committed To the private sector and to bring this Right Collab between the public and the private. So I worked a lot With the private sector. Yes, with event management Companies.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And I tried as much as possible To give them support and, within the context Of what we did In the ministry, I think we've done well and I went to the private sector, I went to CC+ and I worked on the narrative summit edition of 2023. But it was a continuation. If I would narrate my career or what I've done. It's all synergized. Yes, and this is why you feel there's a brand being built, because it was long-term, because it was consistent and because it was really focused.
Speaker 1:And I would like to know, for example, what is the most difficult thing you felt in working in the government sector.
Speaker 2:Of course there is a gap in speed. When you want speed, the government is slower. World course there's a gap in speed.
Speaker 1:We're used to speed the government is slower Worldwide, by the way. This is worldwide.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, calibers. We have a big crisis in Egypt in terms of language. Definitely, you go to many Arab countries North Africa, you see it in Morocco, in Tunisia, in Lebanon. All these countries have a language, even across the board, and Egypt was like that, by the way, in the past. Egypt, if you meet anyone, simple he speaks English. In the past, we had a big crisis in education, so we lost the language. Language is a very important thing.
Speaker 1:So we lost the idea of accessibility the idea of access to bridge borders, exactly.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I want to go back a little bit with you to not just Narrative Summit, but I want to know you won the Biz Award in 2023, right, and it's a big thing. It's a big, big award, not just this award. Honestly, you've had many awards and recognitions in PR and media across the region and locally. What was the most memorable moment in your career that you felt was a moment that is both memorable and also felt like it changed something in PR in Egypt? I mean in PR in the country, thinking about PR in general, Whether it was a company you worked with or a person who adopted a strategy or anything like that.
Speaker 2:Look, noor, I'll tell you something. I'll tell you something very professional and I'll tell you something very emotional. Tell me Please, professionally, I've never competed with anyone. I mean, I've never looked at anyone and saw who was doing what. Yes, I was always focused on what I. Yes, I was always looking at global standards, global standards. I was always looking at it and saying how do my friends see me? How do my friends see me? We see each other and we respect each other because we're nice.
Speaker 1:Definitely it's sweet.
Speaker 2:But professionally, you want to aim for the best, and I always looked at the West. I always looked at those who were able to do things, who are much more developed than us. These are the people I was looking for, their recognition, and they saw me. For me, this moment was last year, in 2023, october, when Sir Ben Elliott, the founder of Quantessentially and a great businessman, and Sir Mohamed Mansour also most of his work is abroad. Now Come and tell him wow, lamia, you've done amazing work. It's like I'm sitting in LA or in. That was my recognition, because it comes from people who are exposed and it comes from those who have seen it, and they don't say that to make me happy. They're coming next year, the next year. They want to come back. They want us to be with you in something like this. We believe in you. We believe in you. You're trying to do a good job. You're genuine about it.
Speaker 2:So that was an important point for me. When you push yourself to achieve global standards and to speak globally with the global language, that puts you in a different place or puts your country and your community in a different place. The emotional part. The emotional part my kids. I want to tell you something very interesting. Yes, when I go to my children's school and I talk to them, they bring me sometimes in conferences and things like that, motivational speeches. That's beautiful In high school People get out of school.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I. So I talk to them and I give them a speech. For example, a girl who is 14, or my son when he was in school. Back then, mommy, they fell in love with you. They really liked what you said when your kids come to you and tell you we're proud of you. It means so much because growing up I was not there most of the time because I was busy. I tried to give them quality time but I wasn't a kitchen mom I wasn't a sandwich mom there most of the time because I was busy.
Speaker 2:I tried to give them quality time, yes, but I wasn't a kitchen mom, I wasn't a sandwich mom. I tried as much as possible to be in the training with them. I attended all the parents' meetings but I could have done more right. So then you have a feeling that, oh my God, I wish I did more. So when they tell you, oh my God, I'm so proud of you, look at. So when they tell you, oh my God, we're so proud of you, look at what you've done, you feel recognition. Yes, and I think this stands above any recognition. When your kids realize that what you've done was with purpose and you did not do it because it took time and I wasn't busy, because I was going to the parties and going out with my friends, I was actually trying to do something for you and for the industry and for you to be proud one day For Noma, you recognize that it was something really big for me.
Speaker 1:That's amazing and, honestly, it takes me to my next question, which is you've done all of these incredible businesses and positions, including CC+, narrative Summit, assistant Minister of Tourism and Antiquities, and, of course, you have other verticals like Flair Magazine from CC+, but Aiza Araf for your kids, for example. As a mother, what advice do you give them when they come to you and they say, for example, I'm not sure exactly what I want to do in the future?
Speaker 2:Or.
Speaker 1:Aiza Araf. I don't know if Aiza the future or when I grow up. Typical sort of things that we go through. What's your advice?
Speaker 2:it happened and my advice would always be it's a journey, you won't have all the answers right now and there's absolutely no point stressing yourself out, but the point is to do what you need to do, and it's a day at a time. Yes, now what you need to do is to focus on your grades, to focus on your sports, to focus on your health. That's what you need to do don't do anything stupid. Don't do anything that you'll regret later the.
Speaker 2:PR answer. At one point you want to go to this party and have a great time, but you do what you need to do and it will come. It will come because, as long as you're in peace with yourself, you and you will know that what makes you glow, what makes you sparkle? Yes, is it communication? Is it, uh, photoshops, doing like creative things, is it? Is it, um, is it when you meet people that makes you shine?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:This is what you should be looking for. It doesn't come in your 20s, by the way. In your 20s, you're still delusional, you're still trying things out, you're still trying to achieve, but there's a certain moment where you say, oh my God, I love this. And when this moment comes, this is what you need to do. A question would be will it make me rich? Is it worth it? Because this generation is all about making money.
Speaker 2:Yeah, literally the entrepreneurial generation, the entrepreneurial thing, I will tell you that you can always make money doing what you do. Well, yes. Anything you do well will make you money. You, your style, is very different from mine. We were traditional be an engineer, be a doctor, everything was called title, title. Now it's you. Yeah, what are you able to do?
Speaker 1:the personal brand exactly million percent the personal brand like this is it? I think what you've done incredibly, to be honest, is you've done your personal brand. You have Lamia Kamel as the personal brand and you've done other brands, and this is really hard to achieve. To be honest, it's a lot of work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a lot of work. We work a lot, we work early, we do what we can and at the we're kind to others. We're kind to others. It's a big part of the wisdom to create the ecosystem around you whereby everybody benefits. Everybody's a winner. It doesn't matter who's stronger than the other today, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:I see people around me who are stronger than me and people I'm stronger than. It doesn't matter, it will roll, it will be better, this will be better, this will be better, but the whole ecosystem is based on generosity, it's based on support and it's a positive ecosystem. So we as a group, whether in this market or in Egypt, we help each other a lot. I used to listen to my competition. I would tell them help me out on this and I'll please. There's no need for that and we help each other because we know, we know and it will come down to to giving it back.
Speaker 1:And it's a bigger vision. But I think, speaking of the ecosystem, what's next for the next Narrative PR Summit? I really would love to know. My audience would love to know, and how can we attend? How is it working this year?
Speaker 2:Please tell me. We want to channel it into an ongoing campaign. So our summit last year was an event, a two-day event, whereby we draw recommendations and we send those recommendations to decision makers so that, in the end, we make a change in the shaping of the narrative of the country. Today, the topics are a little different. There is more focus on access to finance, so bringing entrepreneurs on board. It's very important. How people scale up, how people reach, how people get the right funding and they're bringing stories about these things. Tourism is still a big part of our content and sports Interesting. So these are the three pillars that we're working on. It's still in a meeting phase. As a summit. It's still a meeting. However, on social media, we're bringing in the best parts To be followed so people can see what's happening. It's in April. It's in April and the nice thing is we have a lot of companies that help us In the promotion of the content and they're doing an award.
Speaker 2:That's a new one yes, that's a new one, I love that, and it's a beginner's award. It's basically yeah, it's about Everyone wants to say the beautiful image of Egypt in his own way. We're going to announce it. Everybody's going to be part of it. The winner is going to be in the event, so it's a storytelling award. So this is how we can bring in Gen Z to be part of this.
Speaker 1:Motivation.
Speaker 2:They're going to finish it. They're going to be the leaders after 10 years. Who do you want to?
Speaker 1:win. You need to no, no, no, that's incredible. Okay so taking it to the next level. Will there be an award? Will there be more of everything we saw last year?
Speaker 2:inshallah, there will be nice content, there will be an award and there will be consistent work, moving from April onwards, on how Egypt can be properly branded.
Speaker 1:Amazing.
Speaker 2:There will be visits, we will do international media engagement. There will be work all year round, not just about the summit. The summit is going to be a tool that comes within the entire conversation, but it's a tool. So it's not that we're all here because of the summit. The summit is part of it. There are other things around it. And everybody has something to do.
Speaker 1:I literally can't wait. I think it's going to be amazing this year. Thank you, nour. Okay, so our last question for you, lamia, on the podcast, is we need your curation as Lamia. What's curated by Lamia? So, aiza Araf, what is Lamia's day-to-day that elevates your life, whether it's something regarding fashion, or a tip, or a drink, or something, you know what I mean like, absolutely, what's your edit?
Speaker 2:I heard that friend, my best friend actually. She sent me, uh, a quote, okay, by by one of the I don't know even who said it, but I was very inspired by what she said. She said we don't have to be men to be powerful, we don't have to have Male energy to be powerful. And sometimes you find women With a lot of male energy, with aggression, voice that's not very strong Like men. When she's psychologically and physically she's a woman, so that's a load on her. It's easy for a man to get angry, it's a burden. So what she was saying is that I love it when I see women who are proud of their women energy and they're powerful with their women energy, with their female energy. Because you have that. No, I'm looking at you, trust me, you're like who do you have it? Trust me when you're when, when you respect your beauty, when you respect your which.
Speaker 2:Back to the physical beauty, back to the beauty from within this genuine beauty and, and I believe, every woman is beautiful in her own way. So when you embrace that, when you embrace it and you take care of it, you take care of what you wear because it's nice, yes, because it's fun. Fashion is not a superficial thing. Fashion is a persona.
Speaker 2:You want to reflect your persona through fashion. So, when you take care of your fashion, when you take care of how you look, when you take care of how you speak, when you develop your being instead of focusing on others, when you take care of how you look, when you take care of how you speak, when you develop your being instead of focusing on others, when you focus on your being as Noor or Islamia or whoever that person is, and you develop this personality and you develop its shape and subject and attitude, you get inspired. And when you get inspired, when you feel good about yourself, you do wonders. Because if you can't love yourself, you'll be stuck in this pit, in this darkness and and it's such wasted energy, whereas if you focused on yourself and solved your personality and solved yourself and dressed nicely and met nice people and sat down nicely, you'll be inspired to work and develop and you'll get a lot of things that are not good, but it will pass. You will have the energy and the confidence that it will pass it's not going to stick.
Speaker 1:I love that. It's like the best edit, work on yourself and build yourself and focus on yourself 100% amazing. So we're going to do what's in your bag with Lamia Kamel. Okay, first of all, I love your bag. Beautiful YSL, gorgeous color, very on trend actually. Okay, let's go. Okay, all right, what's in there?
Speaker 2:So I have my favorite perfume. Oh my God, can I?
Speaker 1:see it Sure Okay guys.
Speaker 2:Lamia, kamel, tom Ford, rose Prick. It's so good. It's so good. I'm a firm believer in scent. Oh well, I'm a firm believer in a scent.
Speaker 1:Bd yes okay, okay okay, okay, okay so what's in there that I?
Speaker 2:rarely use, no way, because I'm busy right now, but I love it. It's with me just in case.
Speaker 1:But I love it, okay. So what's in there? A mascara, okay, amazing. Can you tell us what it is?
Speaker 2:It's like a Dior. It's a Dior. Okay, no, it's a Lancome actually ifsala rom lipstick love it.
Speaker 1:Can I see the? I want to see the color. Sure, we're very specific. My audience is very into this okay, so 304. Why sell lipstick, guys? I?
Speaker 2:will write another lipstick, amazing Kiko, obviously guys, kiko lip gloss.
Speaker 1:We know it's really good, we know this.
Speaker 2:I have a makeup guru too. Like that's not normal yes, because we are ladies and ladies. This makeup guru, like that's not normal another YSL okay no, no, people give you a chance when they like how you look wow that's a real take, guys can. I tell you something. Yeah, but I think this is part of it.
Speaker 1:This is part of PR. You know, you have to present yourself. Wow, that's a real take, guys. Can I tell you something? Yeah, but I think this is part of it. This is part of PR.
Speaker 2:You have to present yourself, you have to look comfortable. I'm not saying you have to look some sort of no, no no. It's not about that, but you look comfortable. People like to look at you. I love that. I love that Okay.
Speaker 1:What else do we have? Blush, blush, I love mac.
Speaker 2:I'm obsessed. Can I tell you something? I literally was just in mac restocking okay, so we know the perfume.
Speaker 1:The perfume is amazing and it smells like you, by the way yes okay, what else do you have?
Speaker 2:um, is there anything else? Yeah, plenty. This is my pouch that has all my cards.
Speaker 1:Okay, my business cards. You use a pouch, not a wallet, not a card holder.
Speaker 2:Imagine I have a card holder but I put the Very interesting Amata. I divide the things. If I want to pay, I take this. If I want to meet someone new, I take this that is so interesting.
Speaker 1:I love that the PR pouch.
Speaker 2:I know, but that is so interesting, I love that the pr pouch?
Speaker 1:I know the pr pouch and there's the payment pouch okay. So I have to ask you something regarding the pr pouch okay airpods. Airpods obviously essential. So do you still believe in business? Some cash I want to know business cards no really, but some people do. But you know something, I was just kind of in the middle. Let's do the QR code thing, but there's still something about a business card.
Speaker 2:That's you lose it, you lose it, you lose it and you find it and you get angry and you get angry. However, there are still people who keep it. There are still people who, once you accept it, they give you the business card.
Speaker 1:But Lamia, if you, I want to take your number, what do I do? Or your WhatsApp, your email, if you give me your business card.
Speaker 2:I'll give you your business card, okay, but if you don't give me, your business card.
Speaker 1:That's a professional. If you give me your business card, I'm giving you your business card.
Speaker 2:Actually, I have something very interesting that my team just created for me. I think my team is here.
Speaker 1:I want to see. Okay. So basically, if I give you a business card, I get one back. If not, then we're doing digital.
Speaker 2:We're doing digital and I have this whole.
Speaker 1:I want to show it to you. Thank you, so I don't steal it.
Speaker 2:You're welcome. I have all my stuff in pink, but it's a coincidence, so I want a girly girl to do this. Okay, thank oh, tap. So basically you tap, super cool. So basically you tap the card and I get. You get all the information, all the social media for that my team.
Speaker 1:That's a really good tip you can tap. It amazing oh I love that that's actually so efficient and and sustainable and sustainable, but they were not the sustainable.
Speaker 2:It's such a good point. Imagine how many trees have you destroyed. I know, and so I think that's where you. It's such a good point. It's such a good point. I have a problem with printing a lot of paper, of course. Imagine how many trees have you destroyed.
Speaker 1:I know, and so I think that's way way more efficient. Okay, anything else. Cash, cash as a proof.
Speaker 2:No, I'm kidding, I have something I really like. Actually, I think it's here. Okay, I'm a big believer in mint. Keeps you fresh, love it, you're able to talk and you smell good that's a really good tip and you know someone who gave this tip.
Speaker 1:When they sit, when they go to fashion weeks yes, for Paris fashion week all the girls are like always have mint, always have gum, always have it's really important.
Speaker 2:I want to tell you that we underestimate the amount of things amazing. I mean you give the word the.
Speaker 1:Amazing the appearance and it's the details. It's the details.
Speaker 2:Thank you, lamia, thank you Lord. I'm so happy. I'm so happy, did you?
Speaker 1:enjoy the episode. I love it. I feel like I got such interesting takes from you. It's amazing.
Speaker 2:You know how to summarize In a nutshell Do you do branding? I don't you should Thank you.
Speaker 1:Lamia really is a mentor.